Thinking about Indy
As you can tell I have had my thinking cap on since the end of the Sprint Cup…. ahem… race, at Indy.
You should also know my having gone to outside devices to assist in thinking about the event doesn’t guarantee any token amount of success.
That said, and already being in a mood prone to laughter after Kyle Busch rubbed NASCAR’s face in the dirt at ORP, I had to chuckle at NASCAR’s massive amount of lipstick they applied to a pig in the immediate aftermath of Indy.
The race story hadn’t made onto all of the nation’s newspapers AP desk and they issued a news release entitled, “Challenging Circumstances At Brickyard Balanced By Increase In Green-Flag Passing.” That was followed by this first para:
“With teams clearly responding to the challenges presented by tire wear during Sunday’s Allstate 400 at the Brickyard, the race produced a solid increase in green-flag passing compared to last year.”
You have to hand it to the PR guy/gal that thought that one up and rushed it out the door.
The race has also led some scribes (not just NASCAR PR) to go off the deep end. Like this one for example:
“I was at the Speedway for the entire month of May for the Indianapolis 500 and witnessed Indy cars run over a thousand laps using Firestone tires, with a lot more downforce, higher cornering speeds and not one tire failure all month. NASCAR is the only major racing series worldwide that has a persistent issue with tires.”
I guess he forgot, conveniently so, a Sprint Cup car weighs over twice as much as an IndyCar with a roll center that may as well be in Earth orbit by comparison. As for other major racing series… bunk!
The Australian V8’s, who run Goodyear I might add, just last week took a survey of drivers and team owners (see page 5) asking what could be done to improve series competition, 6 out of 12 named improvement in tires in one form or another at the top of their list.
Anywho, back to Sunday’s event. Goodyear’s director of race tire sales Greg Stucker said he didn’t yet have an answer about why the NASCAR tires didn’t last as anticipated. Give him points for honesty, at least.
But I have the answer he’s oblivious to or refuses to admit.
Goodyear’s tire testing policy is crap! It’s as simple as that.
Specifically in Indy’s case they tested in April when ambient air temps were probably 15-20 degrees cooler than what could have been expected for a late July race date.
Granted, the tire engineers have to have some lead time to gather testing data, return to Akron and manufacture a tire inline with what testing indicated, but some kind of happy medium must be found to account for track conditions between a test and the actual race date.
Overall, and it goes without saying but will anyway, the way tire tests are conducted are blatantly unfair to some teams.
When was the last time a Haas Racing team, BAM Racing or some similar “small team” were invited to an official Goodyear test session? Hell last year even some of the larger teams were complaining about how other multi-car teams seemed to be gaining an advantage in how the invites were handed out by Akron.
One could argue the tests are for tires and nothing else. I say bunk. Again. If you believe that I have a 50 acre farm including 230 head of Unicorns to sell you.
In a starting field where the top 25 or more qualifiers are separated by a quarter second or less it doesn’t take much to tip the balance in favor of those that have had more track time at a certain track.
I’ve said it before, but it bares repeating, if Goodyear wants to supply tires to NASCAR it should be mandated by contract every team that is expected to start a certain event should be invited to the tire test at the track. Additionally, it should be on Goodyear’s dime with the exception of lodging costs at the site of the test.
A tire test, done with the express purpose to provide a safe and competitive tire shouldn’t cost any of the teams cash. It’s like that phrase from the past you hardly hear any longer, “it’s for the good of the sport.”
Will it happen? I doubt it, I have a better chance at unloading 230 Unicorns.
UPDATE: This is funny, I don’t care what anyone says, the following is currently featured front and center on the Indycar front page:
Tire wear a non-issue in ‘500′Did you know? Ray Harroun changed four Firestone tires on his way to winning the 1911 Indianapolis 500.
This year, Scott Dixon won the pole at 226.366 mph and averaged 143.567 mph in winning the 92nd edition. The Firestone Firehawks were a non-issue during the 200-lap race.
Technorati Tags: Goodyear, Sprint Cup, Jimmie Johnson, NASCAR
Michelin’s revenge?
I’m confused, how did this happen? It’s not like 05 where there was atyre war & Michelin got it wrong.
So Goodyear listens to the ‘wants’ of the three drivers who tested at INDY, and brings an inferior tire. All three of them after the test said they needed a ’softer’ tire, and Goodyear complied. Next time, Goodyear might not listen, and only hear the whining of drivers and fans after the fact.
But you are right, the Goodyear testing policy seems to be flawed. Three race teams for a tire test does not always paint a clear picture of race day conditions.
Other than the F1 ‘05 race at Indy, that was the single worst “race” I’ve ever seen. Period.
My only hope is that NASCAR and Goodyear took home a lesson that will be applied to other tracks as well as Indy before they show up with crap tires for the crap wagon they now race.
Marc, did you see the race? Did you notice the severe offset of the Hendrick’s cars? The front tires appeared to be a foot or so out of alignment with the rear tires. The cars looked like they were crabbing down the straight aways. Never noticed such a severe offset before. Any comments?
George,
The crabbing was not as severe as seen earlier in the season from all teams. Nascar took care of some of that with the rear camber limits.
as for the ‘worst’??
the worst was the CART race at TMS that was canceled less than an hour before it was scheduled to start. At least NASCAR did continue with the race program, and I think they did all they could do, under the circumstances.
I tend to agree with okla, at least they tried. The end result wasn’t pretty by a long shot but there was a show (for lack of a better term) not a parade of 6 cars.
And it has to be said, more cars/teams didn’t have tire problems than did.
Don’t get me wrong guys, I applaud NASCAR for trying to work through the problem but it doesn’t change the fact that the race sucked. And really what other choice did they have? Cancel the race and piss off 200,000 or so fans? They tried doing the right thing in a situation that had no satisfactory answer.
Brian France was obviously not interested in “spanking” the fans or the teams like Max Mosley did to the F1 establishment in ‘05.
“the race produced a solid increase in green-flag passing compared to last year.”
That has to be nominated for “Oustanding and most well thought through before publishing, “Quote of The Year.”
Lend him/her your thinking cap Marc. He/She needs some electroshock therapy.
I really hope it was a man who said that…
Clance’, would you be disappointed if I told you the name of the person that okay’d that phrase was named “Leslie?”
Or would you need my hat in an attempt to determine whether the name fits more for a girl or guy?
Marc, a question for you.
Do you think bias ply tires would have made a difference in the race? Reason I ask is becaue the experts say the CoT is similar to the cars of the mid 80’s.
No.
Good answer, nice hat. Why so? They ran Ontario with them and Ontario was similar to Indy.
They may, or may not be similar to the cars of “the mid-eighties,” BUT are they similar to the cars prior to 1980 when Ontario closed for good?
That said, the radials having steel belts have allowed both Goodyear and Hoosier to produce much stronger sidewalls in their tires.
Here’s the Science as applied at Indy.
dude, you’re good.
OK. So the CoT is heavier than an Indy car. But, it’s not as simple as all that.
In terms of downward force applied to the tires, the tires don’t know the difference between real weight and downforce. An Indy car produces ~5000 pounds of downforce at 220 MPH. So, in that sense the Indy car weighs a hell of a lot more than the CoT.
OTOH, aero downforce isn’t real weight and doesn’t generate lateral forces while the car is turning. So, in that sense, the CoT should put more lateral forces on the tire at any given speed, and therein lies the rub (Heh!): An Indy car goes around corners at IMS ~60 MPH faster than the NASCAR sleds do. You can’t simply compare the two machine’s real weight and leave it at that, because their cornering speeds are not nearly the same.
The short story is that an Indy car puts a lot of stress on its tires. Pointing to differences between the car’s weight, etc. just serves to muddy the issue. The problem was the tires. That is what needs to be fixed. The grooves at Indy are meant to be filled in with tire compound, or “rubbered up.” That never happened.
Fans at the race said they saw lots of black dust building up at the edge of the track, and some complained about themselves getting covered in black dust. So the grooves of the track were acting like a file against the sliding tires, and that situation never improved because there wasn’t any rubber getting laid down on the track.
Short story: wrong compound. Better luck next year.
Moose - “Short story: wrong compound. Better luck next year.”
Maybe not the wrong compound, read the update and comment at 0602 on this post.
It may have been a change in the molecular structure of the tire.